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I've recieved a fiew comments that my info is "good" for other cars. For sure a Nova or such would be very very similar to a Camaro since it uses the same subframe and components, even the firewall and some of the floorpan is the same!
I have even heard of non-GM people getting some good tips from here. I think any car would benefit from most of the improvements I have info on. While cars ARE different most can benefit from improved parts and geometry in a similar way.
I'd rather have you post your question on the Team Camaro suspension forum section http://www.camaros.net
If you Email me please include:
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SUBJECT IN THE SUBJECT LINE,
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IF A BRAKE QUESTON, IS IT POWER OR MANUAL BRAKE, DISC OR DRUM?
My Email Address: davidpozziracer AT netscape.net
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Most of the info you read here is in response to questions I have
been asked about Camaro Suspension and brakes in the CAMAROS.NET
forum. If you would like to ask more
questions, post them to the Suspension forum there.
http://www.camaros.netMost of the information on this site is based on my expirence and reading of Magazine articles and Books over the last thirty years. Some of it is from surfing the net and reading info from others. If anything you read here does not make sense or seem correct it is your responsibility to double check it and insure you have the correct information before risking your life, or spending your hard earned money.
There are some really great books on how to do just about anything. Please do your research first!
If you don't feel confortable working on your suspension or brakes, get experienced help.
If something seems wrong, it might be, check it out further, get help, get advice, read a book, ask questions, and: THINK SAFETY!
A lot of the information here bears careful reading and thought. "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail" These are good words to live by.
I ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Car
Life MagazineThis article tells how Penske built the car, all the suspension mods.
This 69 Camaro is still winning Vintage Races!
Any consideration of the available options needs to address the basic requirements of the owner.
You need to ask yourself the following.
How much do I want to spend?
Do I want a really neat looking suspension that is "trick" and everyone will want to look at?
Or do I want to make my Camaro handle well and I don't want to spend a lot of money on "showy" suspension?
Do I want to do irreversable modifications that will be difficult or impossible to change back?
Do I prefer stock parts that are easy to replace, or custom aftermarket parts?
Do I want maximum cornering and performance at the expense of ride comfort?
Do I want a Pro Touring, Stock, or Vintage Racer, drag racer/pro street Look?
I believe that the stock suspension can be upgraded by a few mods
that will enable it to keep up with nearly any First Gen Camaro
equipped with an aftermarket front subframe. By that, I mean the
driver will make far more difference than the type of subframe. The
stock sub is limited on front tire width and won't be able to clear
large tires like an aftermarket sub.
If the stock suspension is not upgraded, only mild street performance handling can be expected.
When it comes to pure cornering power, the main factor is tire construction, compound, size and grip. It is impossible to corner at 1G when the tire is only capable of .9G Simply, you can't get more out of a tire than it has to give.
The purpose of a high performance suspension is to provide the tire with the rigidity, geometry, and stability to get the most out of it. The rest is up to the driver, the road surface, and the weather.
A high quality aftermarket subframe can save you some weight and
increase torsional rigidity, which will improve steering response and
front traction. You can gain header clearance, and can clear wider
tires than a stock subframe can handle. My Art Morrison front Subframe is 2.5" narrower each side compared to stock.
I don't believe there is a big difference in the weight of the subframes themselves, I think the main difference in weight savings is centered around the bolt on suspension and steering components, etc.
Tubular A frames, are available for the stock subframe, as long as you don't want to go super wide on tire width.
A stamped steel lower A frame only weighs 11 lbs! This means there
is only a little room for weight savings by using tubular A arms, or
aluminum Corvette parts. Most of the aftermarket sub weight savings is
in what you bolt to it, not in the subframe itself. There is a GREAT
improvement in engine access, it's much easier to work on.
So, if you have pondered the above and feel you want the
aftermarket subframe- great! I think you will enjoy it once you get
it all together and running. You will have something to show to
people that is different from other Camaros and have that
last bit of better handling over the other guys. If you have the
largest rear tires, you need front tires one size smaller, if you have
a 335 rear tire, then the front needs a 315, if you use a 275 up front,
then the car will understeer and you will have quite a bit of work to
do to get the handling balanced.
If your budget is a little tighter or you like a more stock
Camaro, you can still have fairly good handling and
cornering power, and hopefully save some money too, but either way,
it's going to cost you. Front tire width will be limited to a 255, and
with some work perhaps a 275 will clear but it won't be easy. You have
to do ALL the tricks to a stock sub to come close to an afermarket
subframe.
If you have decided to improve your existing First Gen suspension, You can fix what's wrong quite easily and end up with a car that will corner like a race car.
I know what is wrong with the stock suspension, and I know how to fix it, and have most of the parts. I've paid my dues to learn about suspension and read and collected Camaro handling articles since 1966!
I feel I need to add something here. While I have a good understanding of suspension and can outline what should be done to a First gen Camaro to improve it, don't take my comments as a put down of the suspension upgrade kit makers.
I feel you will have the best results if you buy a good kit and
use all the parts from the same source. That way you will hopefully
wind up with properly balanced handling. Some kits are more
aggressive with spring stiffness and will ride rougher than others.
Some cost a lot more. Just realize that if you decide to mix and
match your suspension parts, you will need to understand and be able
to tune your suspension to get it where you want it. A good kit will
have all the pieces that work together. Just because one anti-roll
bar looks the same as another it may not be the case! Little things like sway bar bushing material makes a difference.
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Not enough / any negative camber gain under bump or roll. |
Guldstrand mod or add more negative camber to static
setting. Or tall upper ball joints. |
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Springs and sway bars too soft. |
stiffer springs - stiffer front and rear bars |
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A frame bushings deflect under hard cornering. |
Global West Delrin bushings or poly bushings Greaseable Delrin is best, Polyurethane squeaks and grabs. |
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Ride height too high. |
Cut springs or use adjuster, stiffer springs required to keep from bottoming. |
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Subframe bushings to unibody allow flex, -poor torsional rigidity. This get's more noticeable as you stiffen the suspension, and drive harder. |
Solid subframe bushings, don't use poly bushings here, sub and unbody should be "One" |
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Steering too slow. |
Use 80's Z/28 TA or IROC box 12.7 to 1, or get a correct year box upgraded by Lee or AGR |
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Firstgen Camaros can have a bump steer or "Roll Steer problem. It can be worse after doing the Guldstrand modification. |
Check it first, don't assume you do, or don't have this problem, fix is special tie rod ends with longer stud, or heat and bend the steering arm down. More positive caster helps reduce bump steer. |
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Tires and wheels too narrow (if stock size) |
Use an early 70's Corvette Rally wheel 8" if you can on a stock look Camaro. Better tires make a HUGE
difference in "stick" 18" wheels are the way to go these days if you want the best results. |
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Shock Absorbers too soft. |
Ride Tech, Bilstein, Koni, |
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Lack of disc brakes on most Camaros. |
Seee my brake page |
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Single leaf springs rear, lack of staggered shocks - 67 model. |
Match spring rates to horsepower of engine, and overall
traction. I prefer the three leaf Hotchkis or Global West
type springs with no added traction bars. Ride Tech Street Grip are nice on a driver Camaro. |
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Tie rod ends are very low, will contact wide tires, this
is very limiting on a 67 Camaro, an 8.5" rim is about max,
255 tire. 9" wide and above need aftermarket sub! |
You need an aftermarket subframe! |
If your Camaro is lowered a lot, you may need to shorten the front end link sleeves a little. Ideally, the sway bar arms would be level when going down the road. But on a lowered car, the arms wind up at an angle and it can even put the links in a bind and hold the front ride height up a little. The bind in this case is in the sway bar end where the endlink bushings are.
You can't allways shorten the link sleeves to where the bar arms are perfectly level because it would then limit the side to side and front to rear travel arc of the endlinks and cause bind that way. You have to find a compromise where it isn't too bad either way.
First gen Camaros have more trouble with this because they have such short sway bar arms. I'm looking for some good photos of this to better illustrate the problem. DON'T over-torque the end links if you have poly bushings, this can cause a bind if the angles are not perfect.
IN ALL POWER STEERING EQUIPPED CASES, USE AS MUCH POSITIVE CASTER AS YOU CAN ACHIEVE UP TO 5.5 DEGREES POSITIVE. TRY SETTING 7 DEG POSITVE FOR AN AUTOCROSS CAMARO. MORE CASTER HELPS TILT THE WHEEL TOP INWARD WHEN CORNERING, HELPS REDUCE BUMPSTEER BY LOWERING THE TIE ROD ENDS. MANUAL STEER CARS WILL REQUIRE MORE EFFORT AT HIGH CASTER SETTINGS, YOU MAY HAVE TO USE LESS.
All are in foot pounds-ft
Steering gear mounting bolts-70 ft
Pitman Shaft Nut 140 ft
Steering Wheel nut 35 ft
" with tilt 1 ft
Steer coupling nut 18 ft
Steering coupler clamp bolts 30 ft
Tie Rod End nut 35 ft
Tie Rod Clamp nut 130 inch lb
Ball joint nut upper 50 ft
Ball joint nut lower 65 ft
Upper ball joint attach bolts (replacement) 25 ft (these replace
the rivets holding the upper ball joint to A frame). Caution, some reports of aftermarket bolts stripping at this torque level.
Steering arm attach nuts 85 ft
Lower control arm 85 ft
Upper control arm 50 ft
Collar bolts 45 ft (bolts that hold the large washer on the ends of the upper control arm shafts)
Brake anchor pin (drum) 130 ft
Brake andhor bolt (disc) 75 ft
Wheel stud (lug) nuts 65 ft
http://www.guldstrand.com/ Dick Guldstrand is an ex GM engineer, he raced first gen Camaros when they were new! He has forgotten more about first gen Camaros than we will ever know.
http://www.globalwest.net/ Has a "negative roll kit for early Camaros, a complete kit including spindle, brakes, tubular A frames, A frame bushings. Interlocking subframe mounts.
http://www.hotchkisperformance.com. Has 2"drop front springs, and a neat light weight hollow sway bar, the rate is listed below.
http://www.speedtech-performance.com/ CHEAPER TUBULAR A ARMS FROM CANADA
http://www.carparts.com Source for discount Camaro suspension parts, They don't have special fast raito long power steering pitman arm.
http://eatonsprings.com EATON SPRING Leaf springs OEM to GM will make whatever you want.
http://www.hypercoils.com HYPERCO makes racing coil springs. (the highest quality coils made) Company used to be called Rockwell Spring. Recomended by Caroll Smith, And ME!
http://www.afcoracing.com/ HARDCORE RACCING CIRCLE TRACK SUSPENSION COMPONENTS
http://www.heidts.com/heisinfo.htm SUSPENSION GEOMETRY INFO mainly hot rod oriented
http://www.nastyz28.com/perftune.html PERF TUNING AND SUSUPENSION Great second gen site with forum
http://www.eatonposi.com/ POSITRACTION UNITS
http://www.chevelles.com/shop/speedo.html SPEDO CALIBRATION
http://www.grmotorsports.com/techmain.html HANDLING TECH INFO - AUTOCROSS MAGAZINE Loads of articles
http://www.asedan.com AUTOCROSS INFO - RACING CAMAROS
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/
CARL CASSANOVA'S NEAT CAMARO, AND VERY NEAT DIY WELD IN SUBFRAME
CONNECTORS INSTALLATION. Website is expired, but I linked to an archived page at Archive.com
http://www.zip-corvette.com/pump.htm
REBUILD PUMP link is not good but maybe you can search for it there
http://jeffd.50megs.com/Pump_valve_mod_page.htm POWER STEERING VALVES
I used to have a lot more links here but those pages are gonehttp://www.baer.com/
BAER BRAKE SYSTEMS My preferred brake system. Great products from great people!
http://www.mpbrakes.com/
MASTER POWER BRAKES Stock oriented brakes/JL8
http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html AUTO CALCULATOR PROGRAMS
http://www.asedan.com/1995.htm ROLL CAGE INFO
camaros limited.com San Jose area Camaro club. Check 'em out!
http://www.rareparts.com/ CAMARO STEERING PARTS New, or they can rebuild your old steering arm or idler arm like new, In Sacramento California, they do not sell retail, you might have to get a business to deal with them for you.
http://web.archive.org/web/20130105101606/http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/articles/article_fs.htm INFO ON FIRST GEN FACTORY RACING OPTIONS: CROSSRAM, JL8 BRAKES, ZL 2
HOOD, TWO DISC CLUTCH. This links to a wayback machine web archive of the site.
http://www.detroitspeed.com/ Builder of the TWISTER Camaro, new site - will be coming out with Camaro suspension products. Kyle and Stacy Tucker, husband and wife suspension engineers for GM. Really terrific people with superior quality parts.
http://www.100percentsynthetic.com/
AMSOIL DEALER CENTRAL CALIFORNIA ASK FOR TOM, HE KNOWS OIL!
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Is a new website by my buddy Rodney Prouty. He's built a great budget 68 Camaro, tried loads of alignment and suspension setups and knows what it takes to win at autocross and open track events. Let him advise you on what parts to use on your project to go fast and not waste money. He's a dealer for many of the above companies. |
VaporWorx Another Pro-Touring friend of mine We use VaporWorks pressure controls on our cars. Fuel System Controllers PWM control for your fuel pump. Slow your pump down when crusing, prevents heating, wear and tear on pump Control your fuel pressure electronicaly, no fuel pressure regulator needed. |
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